Plenty of Seymour stuff, and the folks seemed mixed on the move. I remain shocked that anyone would have a problem with a trade that will almost certainly yield a top five pick for a player who has (A) been on the decline for three years and (B) was not going to be back in 2010 under any circumstances. What am I missing? Is it because the pick is in 2011 and not 2010? That can't be it. I guess there is some loyalty to Seymour, which is great. Of course, you and I both know that all it'll take to move Seymour to Lawyer Milloyville in fans' minds is a halftime score of New England 28, Buffalo 3 on Monday Night. You frauds.
To the bag we go... (and feel free to email away at email@example.com)
Seymour is 29. You make it sound like his career is over. Reggie White was traded to the Packers at the age of 32. He went to 6 pro bowls with the Packers! Look at Strahan, 22 sacks at age 30-31 in His 9th season and then at 32 He has 18.5 sacks. Seymour is only 1 year older then Albert Haynesworth. I can go on and on (John Abraham ATL. Dwight Freeney IND. Julius Peppers CAR.) basically all the same age.
A: I suppose it’s possible that Seymour turns into Reggie White, Lee. I mean, he’s never had more than eight sacks in any season and he’s playing on Johnny Unitas’ knees, but why not? And it’s also possible that Shawn Merriman and Tila Tequila decide that the spotlight isn’t for them, move to Vermont, and run a successful B&B while staying married for 52 years.
Look, I think Seymour can give the Raiders (or whoever) another two or three years of good, solid play, but all I was suggesting is that his days as an All-Pro are over. And you what? They’ve been over for three years. Reggie White’s last season with the Eagles? Fourteen sacks. He was still an elite guy. Seymour isn’t anymore. And Belichick isn’t going to pay Seymour for what he used to be. Really, Lee, what offers the better odds: Seymour returning to Hall of Fame level play, or the Patriots getting a top five pick from the Raiders in 2011?
Don’t forget, Richard Seymour is still the best name for a Bart Simpson prank call. Thought I’d just remind you of that (and yes—I would’ve drafted David Terrell also).
A: There’s no chance this is Philip Roth, right? None?
“Guys on the defensive line have never sold tickets."
Haha. Except for Jason Taylor, Warren Sapp, Howie Long, etc. Love the article, though. Very sad to see Big Sey go.
A: That’s fair, Ronny. But I guess my larger point was that fathers didn’t take their sons to Foxborough just to see Richard Seymour. Probably I could’ve worded it better (a galloping shock, I know).
“Very sad to see Big Sey go”, huh? How do you think Seymour feels? Over the last six seasons the Raiders have won 53 fewer games than the Patriots. He’s going from a team that is at worst a co-favorite to win the Super Bowl to a team that, if everything goes right, might win seven games. The Patriots have a coach that has been compared to Lombardi. The Raiders have a coach that has been compared to Kermit Washington. But the good news is that you can’t beat downtown Oakland. Think Springfield meets Sarajevo.
I'm with Bill Simmons on this one, Seymour is the most overrated Patriots player I can think of. He was a pretty good end for a couple of years but I think he was mostly a creation of the media.
A: I’ve read a lot of this over the last couple of days. I don’t know, if I had to win one game from 2003-06 and I could have my pick of any lineman from that span I would take Seymour. But I understand why you wouldn’t, I guess. Again, the numbers don’t scream “Hall of Fame”. I get that.
I Googled “Seymour best lineman in football” and came across this USA Today story from 2006. Some good stuff in there. Here’s a quote from Matt Hasselback that I thought was interesting.
"I've seen New England go with one down lineman," Hasselbeck says. "You think, 'Anybody should be able to run at will against that.' But the one down lineman was Seymour. He picked up the double team, and you couldn't run against it."
See, there’s no statistic for that. Would you rather have a guy with 14 sacks but does nothing against the run or Seymour circa 2004?
(For the record, I also Googled “Charo nude” in the last 15 minutes. She was just on Jerry Lewis’ telethon and curiosity bested me again. Figured she might’ve let it rip for a minute or two in some 1974 foreign movie with George Lazenby or something. Alas, no dice. Would you be surprised to know that she was in just eight “Love Boat” episodes? And her Wikipedia page has her born in 1951, but IMDB has her born in 1941. Jerry really lands the A-list stars, gotta hand it to him. In the last half hour I’ve seen Tony Orlando, Bo Bice, Lee Greenwood and Three Dog Night. Can’t wait for 2010, when Jerry introduces fresh new talent such as Judy Tenuta and Max Headroom.)
I seriously cannot take you delusional Patriots' fans anymore. Richard Seymour was NEVER the best lineman in football. Just stop seriously! He never ONCE had a double-digit sack season. Don't give me that "commands double-teams" crap. Michael Strahan commanded double and TRIPLE teams and STILL finished with 141.5 career sacks. The guy never had 60 tackles in a season. He was so overrated it's not even funny. He didn't deserve to go to ONE Pro Bowl let alone FIVE! NFL.com got it right. Michael Strahan and Jason Taylor were the DEs of the 00s. I would even put Jevon Kearse and Kevin Carter ahead of Seymour. He was good at best. Get over yourself seriously.
A: I know I’m not David Mamet, but a quick tip. I’m not sure I’d use the word “seriously” three times in a 119-word email. And for sure I wouldn’t end two sentences with it. But I will attempt to get over myself seriously. That’s terrific advice. Seriously.
If you want to put both Strahan and Taylor over Seymour I’m okay with that. Those are both Hall of Fame players, absolute game-changers. I think Belichick might even agree with you, particularly with Taylor. But did I miss all this acclaim that Seymour generated over the years? How is he overrated? I’m not even sure how history rates him, to be honest. I hate to write this, but if you want to look at an overrated Patriots player from the last decade look no further than Tedy Bruschi. At his peak he was a good linebacker, but never great. Sure, he led the league in the little known “jumping on top of the pile to pick up a cheap assisted tackle” stat from 1999-2005, but I’m not sure there wasn’t a dozen middle linebackers in the league that could have stepped in and done the same work as Tedy during the title years. But ask 300 Patriots’ fans if Seymour was a better player than Bruschi and I bet at least half say “no”. Don’t get me wrong, I understand why Bruschi is beloved and Seymour is merely respected by the fans, but one is (at worst) a borderline Hall of Famer and the other made one Pro Bowl in a 13-year career. But Bruschi seems like a swell guy and I bet he’ll even make it through a season on ESPN without vomiting all over Stuart Scott or Chris Berman. No small feat. And he looks like he might be an 8.5 on the “ability to pull off the fake laugh” scale, which is really all you need to stick around for a few years as a studio guy.
Admit that Belichick is a d- -k and let’s move on. He doesn’t care about any of these players. I’m sure Seymour is real happy that he played hurt for BB.
A: I agree that Belichick is no Harvey Levin (not sure what that even means, just felt like writing it), but did I miss where he pulled a Bernie Madoff on Seymour before burning his house to the ground? I mean, all the checks that Seymour received from the Patriots over the last eight years did clear, correct? This is a business. Belichick has taken some grief (from the usual crowd) over this inhumane treatment of No. 93, but I’m pretty sure there was no gun to Seymour’s head when he signed that last contract. Again, this was a no-brainer for the Pats. Yes, they take a slight hit on defense this season. They will miss Seymour. But he was gone after this year. No chance he was coming back. And instead of nothing in return they get what will likely be a top 10 overall pick in 2011. And these clowns in the media that are bashing Belichick over his lack of loyalty would be the first ones killing him if he stuck with this crew for a couple of seasons too long and put up a 6-10 record in 2012.
I heard you on the radio a few weeks ago and you said something that I totally agreed with, that you are already starting to feel that everything was better when you were younger than it is today. And I agree that it’s just an instinct that every generation has and of course it isn’t true, let me ask you this question: How many network TV shows will you have a season pass for on TIVO or DVR this year? Bet it’s not more than five. But how about if you could DVR shows in 1986? How many would you have a pass for then? Take a look and tell me TV wasn’t better back “in our day”.
A: Tremendous question, Joe.
With the TV season coming up I can tell you that I will have a season pass for four network shows: “The Office”, “Lost”, “The Amazing Race” and “The Steve Wilkos Show”. Kidding on the fourth, though I do think Steve has stepped away from the monster shadow of Springer this season. Sort of like Scottie Pippen the year Jordan was retired.
So three shows. I can already tell you without looking that 1986 wins because I would have had season passes for all five NBC shows on Thursday night. But let’s take a look at the entire prime-time lineup.
ABC: Disney Sunday Night Movie
CBS: Murder, She Wrote/Movie
NBC: Easy Street/Valerie/Movie
Verdict: No dice on the movies. Every two weeks was either “The Sound of Music” or “West Side Story”. And despite Pat Summerall’s constant pleadings on Sunday afternoons I never watched an episode of “Murder, She Wrote” (though I would have tuned in if Pat had signed up for a three-show guest spot as Jessica Fletcher’s love interest). I had no memory of “Easy Street” so I went over to the great TV.com for a summary:
A half hour comedy about a show girl (Loni Anderson) who inherited a mansion from her husband and she invites her uncle and his friend and roommate to leave their retirement home and move in with her. Her sister-in-law and her husband were trying to contest the will.
Why? Because he’s my butler.
I would not have TIVO’d “Valerie”. Remember, that show didn’t get going until about season two or three. We all know that. So nothing for Sunday.
ABC: MacGyver/Monday Night Football
CBS: Kate & Allie/My Sister Sam/Newhart/Designing Women/Cagney & Lacey
NBC: ALF/Amazing Stories/Movie
Verdict: You know what I realized a few years ago? There was a group of four guys in my sixth-grade class that watched “MacGyver”. Chuck Chute, Dave Duffy, John Russo. And yes, Kirk Minihane. We would get together after each episode and recap and speculate on what might or might not happen next week. But Kirk Minihane had a dirty little secret. His parents would not let him watch “MacGyver”. Too violent. So I faked my way through it. And they bought it, I thought. Remember, this is pre-internet. No spoilers, no instant recaps. I did it on guts, brains and TV Guide. So jump forward 20 years or so. My nephew is watching “MacGyver” on a Saturday morning. I watch a half-hour or so and it hits me: This is nothing like the show the guys in grammar school were talking about. I’m now convinced that all four of us weren’t allowed to watch it and were all lying to each other. A pre-pubescent web of deceit. I wish I could tell the other three the truth, but all are dead. Okay, that’s not true.
Nope all the way for the CBS shows, but my first “yes” comes from NBC with “ALF”, a show I’ll happily stand by to this day. So we’ve got one show so far.
ABC: Who’s The Boss/Growing Pains/Moonlighting/Jack and Mike
CBS: The Wizard/Movie
NBC: Matlock/Crime Story/1986
Verdict: “Growing Pains” is the only Tuesday show that makes the cut. 1986-87 was a seminal season for the Seaver clan, highlighted by the legendary “cocaine in the hot tub” episode that really was a showcase for the acting skill of one Andrew Koenig, better known to you and me as Boner Stabone.
ABC: Perfect Strangers/Head of the Class/Dynasty/Hotel
CBS: Together We Stand/Better Days/Magnum P.I./Equalizer
NBC: Highway to Heaven/Gimme a Break!/You Again?/St. Elsewhere
Verdict: Kind of a lousy night, huh? This is what I mean about selective memory. When I talk about how things were better in the 1980s I only think of the best stuff. Sure, Larry Bird and “Cheers” and Springsteen were great, but what about David Thirdkill, “Gimme a Break!” and Taco? Maybe it all equals out in the end. I don’t know, but the only show that gets the season pass is “Magnum”.
ABC: Our World/The Colbys/20/20
CBS: Simon & Simon/Knots Landing/Kay O’Brien
NBC: The Cosby Show/Family Ties/Cheers/Night Court/Hill Street Blues
Verdict: ABC and CBS wisely punted on Thursday nights for about 15 years, until CSI came along. Is that the best “Must See TV” lineup in NBC’s history? Five critical and commercial hits. “Hill Street Blues” was running out the clock by 1986, but come on. All five are TIVO worthy. And I suspect that’s the only year that we can say that. There was always a “Caroline in the City, “Single Guy” or “Veronica’s Closet” mixed in during the 1990s.
ABC: Webster/Mr. Belvedere/Sidekicks/Sledge Hammer!/Starman
CBS: Scarecrow and Mrs. King/Dallas/Falcon Crest
NBC: The A-Team/Miami Vice/L.A. Law
Verdict: Just “Vice”. I was never into “Webster” (when it came to sitcoms about undersized black kids adopted by rich Caucasians I was always firmly in the Conrad Bain camp) and “The A-Team” had gone about 30,000 feet over the shark by 1986.
ABC: Life With Lucy/The Ellen Burstyn Show/Heart of the City/Spenser: For Hire
CBS: Downtown/Mike Hammer/The Twilight Zone
NBC: The Facts of Life/227/The Golden Girls/Amen/Hunter
Verdict: At the time of the “Life of Lucy” premiere the two co-stars (Lucille Ball and Gale Gordon) were a combined age of 155 years old. You’ll see a 50-game winner in baseball before you ever see that again. The six stars of “Friends” were a combined 166 years old when the show debuted in 1994. A big “no” to all Saturday shows, though I maintain that Rue McClanahan was America’s first GILF (sorry Katherine Helmond, a favorite of Rob Bradford).
So we’ve got a total of nine shows (and I tried to be conservative) that get the TIVO love. But remember: Cable TV played virtually no factor in 1986. I can’t think of a non-network show that would warrant a season pass 23 years ago, but now I count five that I record weekly (“Mad Men”, “Curb Your Enthusiasm”, “Dexter”, “Big Love” and “PTI”). So it’s really a wash, isn’t it?
For a week we can take the cross-hairs off some "crazy" statement you made and place them right on one of the many chins of your WEEI.com colleague CH Kerry Byrne. Remember the little clown shoes marker we talked about? It should have appeared next to this guys "Life After Richard Seymore" contribution. Why have we included in a Big Sey article a piece written by T.O.'s publicist and a roast beast recipe from Kerry Crocker?
So food, football and beer are your passion? Couldn't tell based on a summary judgment of your mugshot alone. You look like the old Andy Gresh coming off a bad weekend and wearing a Red Wings jersey. That said: recipe GOOD, Terrell Owens commentary, LAUGHABLE.
Yeah T.O. is so fantastic that he bounces to a new team every other year. I-Owens also tears QB's, coaches and teams to shreds while breaking all kinds of meaningless individual records. Please don't tell me you have so much au-jus on the brain that you think i-Owens is a benefit to any team winning anything? This guy is a self-serving implosion waiting to happen.
Over his entire career this guy has won 0 Super Bowls. To put that number in perspectives Kerry, that is none. By my calculations T.O. has torn apart four times as many locker rooms as he has Super Bowl appearances. When you spend all day every day brow beating your quarterback, coaches and offensive co-ordinators to throw you the ball, 2 things happen.
1. You break every selfish individual record in the books and convince yourself you are the best receiver in the game despite being amongst the league leaders in drops.
2. You put yourself in a position to look good more than you put your TEAM in a position to win
You could clone this joker, have him play all positions, and after the team lost by 50 it would somehow still be someone elses fault. You know what Belichick did with these kinds of guys? He benched them because they d-i-d not want to play for the good of the team. What do you do in between sucking buffalo sauce from your fingertips and wafting beer farts? You paint the guy as though the AFC east should tremble at his arrival. After all he is the warrior who returned from a broken leg to a Super Bowl performance where he caught 9 passes for 122 yards. Who won that game anyway?
Fear nothing, by week 8 i-Owens will be 15 receptions ahead of Randy Moss for the year and by week 15 the Pats will be headed to the playoffs and the Buffalo locker room will be divided into two factions. The group that worships the titan that is T.O. and the group that wants to win football games. You say impact player, I say selfish j-off who isn't as interested in winning football games as he is in being the guy who wins them. Put that on a Kaiser roll and eat it.
A: I agree with you on Owens, Jake. How many teams does this guy have to ruin? He’s the anti-Parcells. Every team he leaves was worse than when he got there. You can bank on two things from TO in 2009. (1) He’ll dominate at times and put up very good numbers (I’ll go with 75 catches for 1,100 yards and 10 TDs). There’s too much history to suggest otherwise. (2) At some point during the season he will have to be physically separated from Trent Edwards (I’ll go with Week 7, taking the under). There’s too much history to suggest otherwise. How hard do you think Owens will be playing in Week 15? Figure the Bills should be about 5-9 and I bet it’ll be about 25 degrees in Buffalo. Just a strange move by the Bills. But Kerry was just focusing on the numbers in his column, and on that I think he’s dead right. And you know what? He’d be fine in New England, he really would. Don’t forget, Randy Moss flat-out quit on the Raiders. Has he been anywhere near a problem in his two years? And if Owens started his whole act Belichick would just gas him and move on.
(And I’m on the record that I was more impressed with Randy Moss in 2008 than I was in 2007. I always had a sneaking feeling that he could, in the right offense, set the NFL record for TD catches. He already had a pair of 17 TD seasons before he came to New England. 2007 was no shock. But I had far less confidence that he would play hard for all 16 games with Brady out last season. Sure, his numbers were down but I don’t think his effort can be questioned.)
That was no body double for Nicole Kidman in Eyes Wide Shut. Believe me, I know. Please feel free to return that scene to your rotation.
A: Thanks, Jim. Happy to have Nicole back in the fold. Never a No. 1 starter for me, but always good to eat a few innings when needed.